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Source: Revista União Capoeira, Ano 3, n. 6 – May 2006
Translation into English: Shayna McHugh
Mestre Cafuné, how was your first contact with capoeira?Like every Bahian, my first contact with capoeira was in the street festivals that my parents took me to watch ever since I was a young boy. I always tried to get close to the capoeira rodas during these festivals, seeing the angoleiros perform their maneuvers so close to the ground. The sound of that orchestra attracted me, so I would stay in the roda watching.
Were you a student of Mestre Bimba?Thank God I was. I entered his academy around the end of 1966 or the beginning of 1967. I graduated and I stayed with him until he left for Goias in 1973.
What was Bimba’s philosophy?To educate. He educated us for life, for the art of living well. That was Mestre Bimba’s philosophy.
At that time, there was a lot of discrimination. Were there women doing capoeira with Mestre Bimba?Mestre Bimba tried to include women in the group three times. I have an article that tells the story. It seems that the first time was in 1936, but the three women didn't finish the course because they got pregnant by some of Bimba’s students. He tried again in 1952 and the same thing happened. The third attempt was in 1967-1968, which included Nalvinha, Bimba's daughter, who does capoeira with us today and works with us in the Foundation. There was also Zilar Lacerda and two sisters, Virginia and Julimar Tanajura, who ended up getting pregnant, engaged, and married. There was always male interference.
What do you think about women in capoeira?Bimba was an intelligent person. He loved women and always wanted to involve them in capoeira. It was smart because women have much more sensibility than men, and normally they also have more character than men. Capoeira needs this.
Regarding graduation, we know that today every group has its own system. In Bimba’s time, how did the graduation work?During the graduation ceremony, we received a shield emblem to put on our shirt, a graduation medal, and a blue handkerchief to wear on the neck. This was the first handkerchief, and it was our diploma. Afterwards, if the student wanted to continue in capoeira and did the specialization course, he earned the red handkerchief, and after that the yellow handkerchief. This wasn't a graduation system; it was a distinction for who had completed the course. After this, Bimba gave ten white handkerchiefs to those people who helped him during his life. It's good to remember that Mestre Bimba never graduated "professors" or "mestres," because there was no such thing at the time. Bimba just formed capoeiristas.
There are many people who say they were graduated by Bimba, when they really weren’t. Speak a bit about this.I've read interviews with people who weren't old enough, or hadn't yet been born when Bimba died, saying they were his students.
What have been the joys and disappointments you’ve experienced in the capoeira world?Capoeira doesn't bring disappointment; if you're a capoeirista you know that you'll always receive rasteiras. This isn't disappointment; you have to learn how to fall.
What was Mestre Bimba’s bateria like?Ever since I entered the academy, the bateria was one berimbau and two pandeiros. This was the bateria that Bimba used, and the one that Nenel uses today in the Mestre Bimba Foundation.
Do you agree with the mixture of capoeira and jiu-jitsu?Capoeira is free. Whatever you want to do, capoeira itself will give you the response. If the thing is good, capoeira will assimilate it. If the thing is bad, capoeira will eliminate it without needing to say anything.
Regarding berimbau rhythms, we know that Bimba created all of his rhythms. Can you tell us a little about this?In Regional, we have seven or eight rhythms, which are Banguela, Idalina, Santa Maria, São Bento Grande, Iuna, the Hymn of Capoeira, and Samango. These are the rhythms. Some of them were Bimba's adaptations of rhythms that already existed. We're sure that Bimba created Idalina. I think he also created Banguela, although I can't guarantee it. If you listen to some of the old rhythms, they are similar, so Bimba might have modified them. São Bento Grande is an adaptation of the old rhythm that Bimba created for the capoeira that he wanted to practice. Iúna is certainly one of Bimba's rhythms. Now, Santa Maria is a rhythm of ability. Bimba liked to show off on the berimbau whenever he gave a show, and he invented many things. So it's hard to determine what's what, because capoeira is a very old art, which comes from many years ago.
Since we’re talking about rhythms, why don’t you tell us their meanings?Iúna was a rhythm that Bimba created for the games among graduated students. It was a special rhythm, a very beautiful rhythm, that was used for the graduated students to demonstrate their ability and practice throws.
What about the Hymn of Capoeira?There's a difference of opinion regarding it. Bimba said that the Hymn of Capoeira was "Apanha a Laranja no Chão, Tico-Tico." Some say that the Hymn was São Bento Pequeno, but I heard Bimba say that São Bento Pequeno was São Bento Grande played inversely. So it's more likely that the Hymn was "Apanha a Laranja no Chão, Tico-Tico." At least, that's my opinion…
What's the meaning of the rhythm Amazonas?I forgot to talk about that one. Amazonas was created by Bimba and is a characteristic rhythm of Regional. It's a cadenced rhythm, and he used it (like Santa Maria) more to show off on the berimbau. He didn't have us play to it in the roda, unless someone asked to. He used Banguela in the specialization course for the training of technique and tactics, but Amazonas was more for his performances.
What does the rhythm Cavalaria mean?It's an old rhythm, much older than Bimba. It was used to alert the capoeiristas when the police were arriving. The mestre on the berimbau would play it so that the capoeiristas would scatter and hide.
Regarding the capoeira of today: do you think it’s in an ideal place, or does discrimination still exist?Discrimination exists. We're suffering lots of discrimination right now, because the official Physical Education and Sports organizations want to take over capoeira. They want to corner the capoeira market for an elite class that mainly wants to exclude the black man from his own culture. It will be very difficult to end this discrimination if we capoeiristas aren't truly aware of the battles we're fighting. Regarding the evolution of capoeira, if you want to talk about evolution of technique, I'm wary of saying that capoeira has evolved because I'm seeing lots of things in capoeira that are against the principles of capoeira regional. Bimba told us that the ginga is the base of capoeira, and taught us how to ginga with our bodies loose and relaxed. His first lesson was always the ginga. Nowadays, you see a hard ginga that's asking for a fight. People don't ginga in the roda; they stop in order to exchange beatings. So I see no evolution in this sense, but I see capoeira growing and spreading to the whole world, which is a really good thing. As I said, capoeira takes in what's useful and eliminates what’s not.
Leave a message in closing.I've left this message at the events I attend and the interviews that I give: the great dream that I have is for capoeira to create a tradition of peace among people and nations. The language of capoeira can do this. We see it proved every day in the academy. In the Mestre Bimba Foundation, we've often seen Arabs and Jews playing capoeira with the greatest friendship. Therefore, I tell the young people who practice capoeira with this attitude that capoeira has the power to create a great tradition of peace in the world. |
